Those wanting cuts now ought to be specific as to what they'd do without
The interest on the massive amount of dosh this prudent Chancellor and more recently the Prime Minister has borrowed, and is continueing to borrow. Has surely at some time in the future to be repaid. Now this will hurt and hurt muchly. However, much better a start is made as soon as possible. I found this was always the best option thoughout my life, even though it was hard going. I've had seventy odd years experience of the whole gambit of borrowing and repaying, and found it best in the long run to start sooner rather than later. Bite the bullet as we used to say.
We are only just out of the recession. Italy, Ireland and Portugal are still in it. Germany looks like it might be going back into to recession. Now is clearly not the time to start massive cutbacks. It is going to take a long time to get the deficit down so why risk making it a lot worse and much more to pay back by increasing unemployent and the amounts paid out in benefits in the short term. This happenened in the early 90's and is now widely regarded as a big expensive mistake .
If previous governments had kept borrowing to ride out the previous recessions where would we be now, probably be a bankrupt country? Do we have that option to keep borrowing this year and delay til 2011?
The reason Labour are so keen to borrow this year, is that they do not want to expose their total failure and waste of billions to bail out the banks as it will show how negligible effect this has had.
Lets face it, the recession has not started yet! What we had was banks going bankrupt (thats not a recession, the recession comes after that when taxes have to rise and interest rates rise to raise cash to correct the borrowing and keep public services running).
You can bet the next two years will be a shocker! Of course the spongers will get their free handouts and the rich will make back their lost millions and its the middle hard working classes who will prop up the economy every time and have to pay for it!!!
If these 60 economists are such 'experts' why didn't they tell the Chancellor 2/3 years ago that an economic downturn was on the way?
I totally see your point. Though surely the worry over compounded interest, year upon year must make even the die hard not yet people have a second thought.
Suppose we shall have to wait for a Tory government to pick up the pieces of Browns broke Britain.
We need to cut asap let the market crash (house price -50%, Stock -50%, Plumber hourly rate -50%, Estate agent fee -50%, etc,......)and then we can build growth on real fundamentals. We've been in a credit buble for 60 years. We need to inflate it and deleverage.
Whats the point of the government wasting their time and our money discussing this with an election just around the corner anyway!!
Surely thats the point. One main party has clearly indicated that if elected an emergency budget within 4 weeks and massive cuts straight away in public spending and the other one's policy is to let our's and most other countries get some real growth started and then start the process
We are all giving opinions on should we, shouldn't we, When we should be thinking WHY. Why did Gormless borrow such large amounts of money? Why did he sell of huge amounts of our gold when it was at such a low price? Why do we think he is prudent and a good figure at the helm?Why is he still borrowing money hand over fist?Why is he regarded by some of his own party as being psychologically flawed? WHY are we even considering taking any advice offered by him?Why is he the prime minister, we never voted for him, or half the people who are making the decisions, that have landed us in hot water?
Why does he continue borrowing vast amounts of money, and then give vast amounts as aid to corrupt governments (more corrupt than ours), when many of our own are on the bread line? I could go on, the examples are endless, you could add many more that have been hidden from the general public. Does this sound like a government with its finger on the pulse? Does the prime minister sound competent? Do we want years more of this?
The thing to realise is that the wasteland that they leave, is a major problem for those that follow, we are going to need to bite the bullet, pay back the debts the Browns of this world have run up for US, our belts will have to be tightened, We need to realise that the lack of control of the banks and on our borrowing habits are a mixture of this lousy government and our own greed and naivety. Bliar, (Brown)and Co were prepared to let us borrow as if their were no tomorrow to remain in favour, to get repeatedly re-elected, some of us didn't mind "we have never had it so good". The longer they were in the higher the debt, now is the time to pay the piper.get them out quickly, wipe them out, never let their ilk return.
I am sure we have mostly watched the TV program from"the moneysavings expert -Martin Lewis," who has been helping people to come to terms with their massive debts and explaining how, by restricting one's expenditure in order to pay off their debts sooner to get them back into the "black"
The same would be true of any business in order to stay afloat, yet our government,under Gordon Brown,ignors this tried and tested basic principle either for political reasons or out of sheer stupidity.
Most households know they have to budget and way up the pros & cons before taking on a large expenditure, as to whether or not to afford it but not Mr.Brown "He just does'nt get it"
You are so right.
All these analogies about household budgets only work when you are talking about 1 household. Here we are talking about 20 million housholds and some of those will be thrown out of work and on the scrapheap. Preasumeably none of the above expect they they would be one of them. How do you link in houshold budgets with an army and social services and schools and hospitals. Not revelant, and ranting and being abusive as one has been is not clever,or very intelligent. My family suffered by being thrown on the scrap heap by a previous Tory administration but we got through and now run our own business and in some repects, don't thank this Goverment for some of the issues that confront us. But also realise that the banks taking stupid ridiculous risks with other peoples money, particularly in America caused most of this. Not regulated properly?? quite right ,here and abroad, and that must be laid at the Goverments door but to just say that it is all their fault and not directing the main blame where it should be is also not very clever.And just as a little aside what do the Tory's come up with as a wonderful idea to all get our money back. Some balmy scheme to get everyone to buy Bank shares and take some stupid risk, so if the banks do it again a lot more people would lose their investments and life savings. Surely that is a lesson we have all learnt. Crazy in my opinion.
To Mr Brady209
I am surprised that you do not seem to understand the basic rules of economics.
Whether you are an individual - a Householder - a Business or indeed a Government irrespective of Party Politics, the basic principles still apply. One should not borrow more than one can afford to pay back, we all know that we are all in for a rough ride in the next 2 to 3 years and therefore we must start to cut the borrowing and make a start to cut the expenditure. It will not be easy but we must cut off the snakes head before it bites us
Obviously the world money markets agree with me because we still attract the 'AAA' rating on our lending terms .The highest level we can get so we pay the least amount of interest. That level only starts to drop when you are judged as not being able to pay back i.e Greece in its current situation. The basics, as you put it, is the choice between cut backs now, more on the dole, more benefits paid out, so no gain or more to borrow to pay the benefits and possibly back into recession OR maintain current spending level till recovery is solid and then start. 30 economists sent a letter to the newspapers saying the former choice was correct and 60 sent a letter this last week saying the latter. Your way could be the most expensive and cost the most for you and I to pay back
As usual, an inane, shortsighted comment. Of course any cut is painful, whatever is chosen, but delaying and effectively just praying that an economic upturn will happen quickly enough to provide enough taxable revenue to cover the increased deficit is much more of a gamble.
Perhaps the real question to you is, when it goes wrong, what will you sacrifice then - because the sacrifice will be greater?
Got kids? - because you are leaving this to them!
Cut now where we can; get rid of the quangocrats and the unelected bodies that appear to be able to burn tax dollars like paper. Brown has had his chance and he squandered it. Do we really want more of the same over the next five years. We also need an industrial policy. Not one that subsidises, but one that recognises and nurtures industries that contribute to the exchequer. Get rid of the green taxes that are or are about to clobber our industries. We seem hell bent on solving the worlds problems on our own. We contribute less than half a percent of the carbon that the world generates.Hardly going to make much of a difference in the grand scheme of things when nobody else is prepared to play ball. Reorganise the national health service, its a total anachronism in its present format. Its time to realise it cannot be all things to all people it just haemorrhages cash with little or no improvement. Sell the euro's we have as soon as the currency is strong enough and buy back gold when it hits the bottom again. Then we will have some decent reserves.
You are obviously in the same camp as Gordon Prudent Brown, so goodness knows where you will be in twelve months time if he is still driving this good ship Great Britain onto the rocks. I grant you it will be very tough, but with strong management at the wheel, and a hung Parliament and coalition Government. That would give the most sensible person throughout this farce a chance to show us the proper road to recovery, Vince Cable to be our next Chancellor would be the person to steer us through the rough seas to calmer waters and OFF the rocks.
You have obviously been very happy with Mr Brown having Sold Our Gold Reserves at a Knockdown Price and, His Boom and Bust Regime . This shows how his past Polocies have Put Brittain in the Position we are In.
Not starting the cuts soon would be leaving the next generation to pick up the bill.
Perhaps the over inflated government civil service would be a good start, as it is this, that primes the ticking timebomb of social costs of pension liabiltys , etc. We could also completely ban the external consultants which have leeched over £350m per annum from this current bunch of no hopers.
Once again the Labour party have screwed up the country and are hoping someone else can fix it , while they smirk in the shadows for another few years. Look at the track record of this political party over the last 50 years and the short term memories of its supporters. We need another strong leader who has a political majority and commercial commonsense. Why not bring back corporal (not capital) punishment for social offenders and enjoy the "Singapore" effect of everyone pulling together again.
The longer we delay, the more it will hurt. Interest is not going to stand still and a second recession is almost certain when we start to repay. What would I do without?
Well, Regional Government in England, Regional planning Forums, The Ageing Forum and a host of similar recently thought up bodies. Government advisors could also well be ditched. I am sure there are still more bodies that can go.
Start saving millions at the Olympics, they have long been sexist! Halve the number of events and compete together, lets show the world true equality!!!
(And save a few quid into the bargain)
To Brady 209
Nobody ever envisaged MASSIVE cut backs. However, a squeeze here and there never hurt anyone. There is always dross to take up and discard. Say all the quangoes in force, are they all really necessary??? Of course they are not. If they were all listed and what they actually do was noted. We might be so surprised as to what their terms of reference did contribute to our society. Especially when it came down to cost/ratio of their existence possibilities. Or in other words, do they really serve a useful purpose? If not, they have to go. That is what cutting costs is all about, massive or otherwise. We all have our different thinking caps on in this regard, but we all know when it comes to the end of the road, what's right is right, and some pet objectives have to be discarded however closely one wants to keep them in ones sights.
Sorry to say and no insult intended Mr Truck but it maybe you that does not understand the basics and shows a certain amount of nievety and others in these comments, in thinking that such a simplistic analysis can apply to the situation. It smacks of Thatchers Little Englander corner shop mentality.
If Mr Brown had not done what he did then your investments and mine along with every one else’s would have gone down with ALL the Banks as the whole financial system went bankrupt ,as Iceland clearly showed . QED
He has done a excellent job and continues to do so in very difficult circumstances that would make mince meat of the armchair advisors.
Want to know what it's really like in Govt then read the Blair Years by Mr Campbell, it shows just how much time all our Politicians waste in dealing with and responding to all the misinformation put out by ALL the Press and media in this country , which unfortunately shapes and forms most people opinions
Clearly you are not following the national debate and comments and info being put out. Even the Labour party with it's cautious approach says it will implement over 4 years enough measures to cut the deficit by half. Alright it might take half as long as that again but hardly leaving it to our kids. The hope, (hope because we are all at the mercy of Global issues which we cannot control), is let growth start moving again creating more jobs and more tax being paid so no benefits being claimed and then the goverment cuts will not decimate the economy and send us back into recession. Can't believe all these people trying to put some one else out of a job so long as they are alright.
"Labour say they'll reduce the deficit by half in 4 years."
And did they stake their pensions on it???
Had my latest pension statement about 3 weeks ago and in the last 12 months it grew by 21%. Most others have gone up by the same amount. Fact, 12 months ago the pension deficit in the 7,400 company pension schemes was 191 Billion. 6 months ago that had shrunk to 91 billion. 1 month ago it was down to 32 Billion. Pensions are always about stock market performance where the vast bulk is invested and not much to do with goverment regulation, tax take or much else. It was only 3 years ago they were, as a group in surplus. Stock getting back to that level so not sure what the point is.
"Us Economists" never supported said shower's poor efforts at running the economy, but the chance to vote the blighters out has only just arrived.
Labours efforts to offer Recession on the Never Never are shameless and need to be stalled!
It seems that like a lot of other people you forget that this is a WORLDWIDE problem which started in the most grab what you can and forget the majority country, the USA. You also seem to be promoting a Tory Government, if it is anything like the previous one it will offer crumbs (shares in what the people already own) to the majority knowing that they will cash in and then the already rich will profit and become richer, just like when the last Tory Government sold off all the utility companies.
Do you really want 15% mortgages which we had with Mrs Thatcher?? Don't be fooled Cameron is a bigger con artist than Brown a fool. Cameron and his shadow Chancellor have no idea what the majority of people ( those who earn less than £35,000 P.A.) live like or even care.
If we cut cut cut, and forget Camerons pledge to protect the NHS because members of his own party want to obliterate it, then Cameron and his ilk will gain and the rest of us will be left , with the crumbs.
The last 3 General Elections, you and others had the chance to vote them out but decided to stick with what had been good for the previous 10 years. Looking at the latest opinion polls you might just be unlucky for another 5 years. ThIS lot are clearly not perfect but in my experience a vast improvement on the last Tory lot
WE SHOULD BE SHOWING THE OTHER COUNTRIES THAT WE ARE DOING ALL THAT IS POSSIBLE TO REDUCE OUR DEBT AND TO PAY OFF THE SUMAS QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE WHICH WILL GIVE INVESTORS THE CONFIDENCE TO USE THERE MONEY TO BACK UK BUSINESSES THUS PUTTING MORE INTO THE COFFERS. I AM SURE ONCE THEY SEE THAT THE GOVERNMENT IS STRONG INVESTORS WILL BRING THERE MONEY BACK
Meanwhile we put another 1 million on the dole and have to pay out more and borrow more. No a more sensible approach is reduce the debt burden certainly, but not in a panic struck go for it whatever the cost. In any event have no problems financing the debt at the cheapest possible rate due to our 'AAA' rating in spite of the current difficulties
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