public sector pensions
The last commentor (Gypsey) is living in a very deluded world. Private industry in general certainly does not provide lots of perks and those that are given are taxed properly. MP's seem the only ones able to set their own rules on perks. As I understand it 70% of my Council Tax goes on staff costs and 33% of that is going on pensions. The public sector have no proper regard to the cost of things because they have an income stream on demand. The sooner the rest of us rebel against this mis-use of power the better. I have saved all my working life in private schemes and my money purchase pension pot will buy me an annuity worth about 20% of my salary, a public sector worker would get 66% guaranteed for life with annual increases. This is a far bigger PONZI scheme than Madof ran.
Thu, 12/02/2009 - 11:33
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Neil, Most public sector workers do not get 66% [of their salary] as a pension. At best many get 50% of their final salary if they spent 40 years working in the public sector. Public sector salaries are significantly lower than private sector on a like-for-like basis especially in senior positions. There are relatively few public sector workers earning a six figure salary and none have 7 figure salaries. Like Gypsy, I have worked in both the private and public sectors and know it is more lucrative in the private sector. Job security and pensions are the only real benefits of the public sector and these by and large do not even things out. One major problem with the public sector is there is no incentive to work harder since there is no monetary or other lucrative benefits If a performance linked mechanism exists it is at best only worth a few percentage points - before tax. The best they can hope for is to get another job at a higher level and the unions have made sure that process is now open, transparent and justified - gone are the days of "job for the boys". I for one say let them have their decent pension scheme because the public sector needs something to attract good employees. The unjustified long term unemployed are the real Madoff's.
Sun, 15/02/2009 - 21:05
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Nurses do not get a 66% pension. The max we can get is 50% providing we have 40 years continuous service. If we don't then it is scaled down accordingly. Most NHS staff will get nowhere near a 50% pension becaause of service breaks. It should also be born in mind that these pension arangements are part of our salary. What the private sector should be doing is campaigning for better pension provision. What were your Unions doing when they were negotiating your wages? What we ALL should be doing is campaigning for a better state pension so that the lottery we have at present dosen't matter so much.
Fri, 20/02/2009 - 01:26
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totaly agree whith Dave from bristol
Mon, 02/03/2009 - 14:51
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With the private sector employee's attacking the public sector pension agreement the phrase 'green cheese' springs to mind. The use language such as paying for public sector pensions with taxes and placing a figure per household on what it costs to pay for public sector pensions is a very obscure method demonstrating a perceived unfairness.
It is very difficult to compare like for like in the two areas and I can only speak for myself, being serving cop and at best vilified by the public .
I currently contibute every month ,11% of my gross salary towards a pension. I work a revolving shift system meaning that it is impossible to adjust my body clock resulting in constant fatigue.I have to do this for 30 years with new starts having to do this for 35 years.
When I do go to work with most police officers I have to deal with lifes unsavoury characters getting punched and kicked on a regular basis. This has carried on to the times when I am off duty.
I cannot strike and I am on call effectively all the time.
However the crux of the matter is this.
I have never looked at a pension in the private sector and complained that it is too high or begrudged any person any part of their salary or condition of their employment so why would anyone think it their position to represent the whole of the public sector as this one huge burden on them and attack that.
For instance how can you compare private sector Joe Blogs who maybe an office manager with a minimal contibutary pension or non contribtory pension to a public sector shift worker who pays vastly more each month over a 30 year period. You just can't.
We all take up employment on the terms and conditions that are offered to us and I am quite sure that the private sector will bounce back in the very near future just like it always has done.
Tue, 03/03/2009 - 14:00
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I whole heartedly agree with you. Council employees are also not so vulnerable to the downturns in "Boom Bust" times. Sitting very comfortably in their ivory towers.
Tue, 03/03/2009 - 19:41
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There are a lot more low paid workers in the private sector than in the public sector most of whom do not have the protection of a Trade Union or worker leverage that is prevalent in the public sector.
Working in the private sector myself I have no "perks" I pay into my own pension, unsure of how much that will give me when I come to retire. Obviously there are people who are doing very well in the private sector but there rewards are dictated by the fact that the firms they work for are making money and not spending money.
People are attracted to the public sector because the pay is generally good in comparison to what that person would earn in the private sector. The are countless incompetents in the public sector who wouldnt last a day in a private business and it is ridiculous that they can retire on a substantial pension of a known amount, funded by the taxpayer.
The fuss Darling made about the £9BN hole in the pension fund of the Post Office made me laugh, he dare not mention the hundreds of billions of pounds black hole in the public sector pension funds that will be a big problem for his predecesors.
Thu, 05/03/2009 - 16:39
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I agree that that the private sector (particularly retail) may not necessarily be well paid, and are without good union representation and may consequently suffer for this, but the private sector is vast and differences in perks, salaries and working conditions will vary widely. As a consequence though good perks can and do exist in many areas. The salaries that public sector staff also vary widely, some quite poorly paid. I believe the main posts within the public sector that the general public associate with such as nurses, doctors, physios, police, firemen etc are attractive predominantly for vocational reasons, although the backdrop of a pension is not unattractive. I disagree wholeheartedly that there are countless incompetents in the public sector who wouldn't last a day in the private sector. Firstly, depending on the roles, you're comparing apples and pears, but secondly people in the private sector do not realise how complicated the systems, the roles and responsibilities of public sector posts are. This and how basic equipment is, and the diifficulties replacing such fundemental items due to financial constraints are the most commonly cited shocks by private sector people coming into the public arena. What people may not realise is that those staff in professionalised roles have trained usually for a minimum of 3 years post graduately and up to approximatley 10 years, and have to remain prefessionally competent, which means a on-going education and training more often at masters, even doctorate level. Professional reading and study is often done in the individuals own time and quite often at their own expense. Aside the unsociable hrs, demanding situations cited by Colin, such as violence and aggression, manual handling requirements and the associated risks of this, these are very demanding jobs. Recruitment and retention of people with the required skills is becoming increasingly difficult.
That's not to say there are not some very demanding jobs needing qualifations etc in the private sector, but the elements that are attractive to a private sector individual and a public sector worker are different. e.g you won't be able to find too many posts that are 9-5, and many public sector workers work an additional average 15hrs week extra unpaid. If you consider career options before entering either sector you weigh up these, including a pension. The pension isn't all singing all dancing as has been explained before me, but I agree with Gypsey in so much that there is a balance to be had. There are pros and cons to both sectors and the pension element is probably being stoked up a little too vigorously for the reality of the scale of the situation - making it sound greener than it actually is.
Fri, 06/03/2009 - 16:42
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The public sector workforce is made up mainly of women on low pay.They contribute a % of their pay ,which is matched by the employer to their pension pot.As more women than men take career breaks they historically have not got massive pensions as the media would have us believe.I seem to recall that UNISON one of the public sector unions wrote an article in their members magazine a couple of years ago and stated that the average pension being paid at that time was £30 a week!!! Having worked both in the public and private sectors I can only say that the private sector was far more lucrative.Private sector employees receive perks unheard of for public sector workers ,bonuses,jollies,vehicles,gifts,meals etc So really I think the media wants to put it to bed now and just be thankful we have the public services we have.Next one to whinge can clean the streets after a hectic night in a city centre or is there a volunteer ?!!!!!